Black-green? “Friedrich Merz comes from another planet for us”

Mr. Al-Wazir, you have had one in Hesse for ten years CDU ruled, which was once considered the blackest, toughest in the entire republic. Would this experience help you when working with Friedrich Merz?
Sure, the Hessian Greens have experienced a lot, and so have I. When I first entered the state parliament, there was still a red-green majority and a black-yellow opposition. As far as federal coalitions are concerned, we should first wait for the election results. But it’s true that when it went to black and green in Hesse in 2014, there was an incredible camp confrontation – and suddenly we were negotiating with them. This also caused a lot of shaking of heads in our ranks.

Why did it still work?
The truth is that the Hesse CDU changed at that moment. She has understood that the confrontational course will lead nowhere in the long term, that there is no point in describing everything that is halfway liberal as quasi-left-wing radical. It’s all the more crazy that Friedrich Merz today gives the impression that he wants exactly that again. All I can say from Hesse is that the opposite approach is the right one.

The CDUBoss could hardly have been waiting for your advice.
The party landscape is more confusing today than it used to be. The Union should not rule out a coalition with us in its own interest and in the interest of the country. In Saxony, Michael Kretschmer thought he would be a hero if he beat us up for months during the election campaign. As a result, he has not only made the Greens weak and the AfD and BSW strong, but has also destroyed the majority for himself and is now faced with a pile of rubble.

Is something currently changing at the Union in this regard? Most recently, CSU boss Markus Söder in the star-Interview sounded a little softer when it came to the rejection of the Greens – only to sharpen the tone again shortly afterwards on social media.
Oh, Markus Söder. Let’s put it politely: He has often proven in the past that he can be flexible in his positions quite quickly when he needs to.

In Hesse, CDU Prime Minister Boris Rhein recently decided in favor of the SPD and relegated them to the opposition. How can this be prevented in the federal government?
There is no recipe for this. The last government formation in Hesse was disappointing for the Greens. During the current legislative period, we made it possible for Volker Bouffier, who was ill, to switch to Boris Rhein. It was a leap of faith that was not repaid. It was humanly right, but unfortunately not politically.

Why did the Hessian CDU no longer want to have anything to do with the Greens?
The SPD wanted to govern so badly that it ended up signing the CDU program. That couldn’t be done with us. It remains to be seen whether this was wise of the CDU in the long term.

Do you want to govern with Friedrich Merz? Many Greens regularly work hard on him.
Friedrich Merz comes from another planet for us. That’s so. But for him we also come from another planet. Frankly: The Greens really don’t dream of Friedrich Merz. But if you have ruled with Christian Lindner for three years…

Doesn’t it get any worse?
All centrist democratic parties must be able to talk to each other and form coalitions, otherwise it will be like France, where soon nothing will work anymore. The federal election campaign will be a debate about the best ideas for the future, which will of course be controversial. But hopefully the Union will have better things to do in the next few weeks than keep picking on the Greens.

How well do you get along with the CDU leader?
I had little to do with him, he was out of politics for a long time. There has been a lot of loud opposition in the last three years. But you can tell that Merz is slowly thinking about the question of whether he would have to deliver in government. He already has the idea that a clever reform of the debt brake might be needed.

If there was a black-green core project – what could that be?
For me, there are green core projects: Germany should remain an industrial country and at the same time become climate neutral. If we manage change well, then it is an opportunity; we are happy to talk about this with all democratic parties. But if we want the past back, then we will become an industrial museum, where the diesel engine stands next to the steam locomotive and the horse-drawn carriage.

The Union has announced that it wants to abolish Robert Habeck’s heating law. Why not? The Greens are also having a hard time.
That didn’t go well, we wanted too much, too quickly. So you end up achieving less. But as painful as the process was, the law became better in the end because a crucial point was added. A multi-million dollar grant program to provide financial support to people who otherwise cannot afford to replace their heating system. This is exactly what the CDU wants to abolish. That would be fatal. But the case has shown how such campaigns can turn against us.

The Greens are often exposed to unfair campaigns and now want to become more self-confident on the issue.
We were often so unsettled by the obvious nonsense that we were accused of that we were no longer able to counter it. Why can the Thuringian CDU hang up a poster that says: We won’t allow ourselves to be banned from grilling? Who wants to ban grilling? No one.

What do you want to do about it?
Keep saying: Yes, we are a party that wants to change things. We know that in a world where a lot is changing, people are also afraid of that change. But if we do nothing, it will become more dangerous for us. In a world of climate crisis, dependence on autocrats and global competition, only change leads to security. This has to be explained again and again.

For many, however, this should fit the picture: the Greens know everything better.
A green party that no longer wants to change anything given the state of the environment and climate would be unnecessary. In our case, it has to come across that we don’t want to torture anyone. But that we do this because we are convinced that this is the only way we can all have a good future – and we don’t want to overwhelm anyone with the necessary change.

The country is doing badly, the economy is in a deep crisis – but the minister responsible says: “Hurrah, I failed, so I’m a candidate for chancellor.”
Robert Habeck did not fail, on the contrary: in record time he freed us from dependence on Russian energy – a dependence that previous governments had placed us in, a key reason for the current crisis. At the same time, the expansion of renewables is finally on track. In the future, this will ensure that our energy becomes cheaper.

“Perspective”? What about now?
Nobody knows better than Robert Habeck that we have to get out of stagnation. That’s why he suggested a path for more investment. It’s also about giving confidence: real wages are rising, but at the same time the savings rate is rising. People are unsettled and prefer not to buy anything. The first victim is the furniture industry because people then say: The sofa will last another year.

The Greens want to give confidence to boost consumption?
If they are not disposable products, why not? There should still be a car industry, but for that it needs competitive electric cars, and it also needs an efficient railway. I’m with the Greens because I want to continue living in a functioning industrial country – but one that doesn’t live at the expense of future generations.

What’s in it for your party in the end?
Actually everything. If we do it badly, we fight for the ten percent, if we do it well, we go for the 20 percent. For us, the trend is clearly pointing upwards again. The end of the traffic light was a release. We suffered for three years.

I’m sorry, what?
When you know what is actually necessary and that you have a responsibility, and then you sit at the table with people who don’t care about that responsibility – that’s hard. Of course, we didn’t do everything right either. But the main problem at the traffic lights was the FDP. Not that it has different views in many areas, but that it soon acted as if it were government and opposition at the same time. This can’t work.

Al-Wazir translates as “the minister”. Is that also the program for Berlin?
I am running as a member of the German Bundestag. Al-Wazir means minister, but not every miller makes flour.

But you would be ready.
I want to become a member of the Bundestag, everything else is up in the air. If you already know how this election will turn out, you should play the lottery.