Are meetings really useful? More and more companies are asking themselves this question – and rightly so, says expert Dirk Schmachtenberg.
Dirk Schmachtenberg is managing director of the management and technology consultancy Plan D. His areas of expertise are innovation, strategy development and digitalization. The interview with him first appeared in January 2023.
Mr. Schmachtenberg, why do we have so many meetings if they often achieve nothing?
The mistake usually lies in not thinking about the goal of the meeting. Many meetings are usually held in relatively large groups. It is not clear who is supposed to make what contribution. This leads neither to productivity nor to satisfaction among the participants. There are actually three reasons for meetings: either you want to work on something together, you have routine coordination or the focus is on social exchange.
Is it this goal that is missing from the classic regular meetings?
Yes, I think so. Jour fixe meetings are good if you really need routine coordination. However, there is often no agenda and I personally find these meetings to be much too long.
What is the maximum length of a Jour fixe?
It is interesting that meetings usually last as long as they are scheduled. If I schedule a meeting for an hour, it will last an hour. Jour fixes actually last one to two hours. Half an hour would usually be sufficient.
What are the economic implications for companies when so much time is spent in unproductive meetings?
From an economic point of view, you can save half the meeting time. It makes sense to use meetings to promote social interaction, but otherwise the economic damage is immense. I once multiplied the estimated hourly rates of those present by the length of the meeting. It was pretty shocking.
How much does a meeting cost?
If managers are present and you also consider the costs for office space, work materials and so on, most meetings cost well over 1000 euros per hour.
If you apply this to large corporations, it is a huge cost factor.
Definitely. Another problem here is that in most corporate cultures there is hardly any proper documentation of meetings for those who did not attend. The motivation to attend meetings is therefore very high. The same applies to emails, where many people are often cc’d. This can quickly take up to 80 percent of working time.
Amazon, for example, has already introduced the documentation of meetings. And Tesla has a rule that employees can simply leave conferences if they notice that the content is not relevant to them. Is this a good idea or could it actually damage the company culture?
The question is how radically this is implemented. In my opinion, Amazon has done this very consistently. Every meeting begins with a quarter of an hour in which everyone can read up on the topic. Beforehand, the person who called the meeting has to write down what he actually wants from those present. At the end, the result of the meeting has to be documented.
And what about Tesla?
The thing is, anyone can call a meeting, but they don’t have to stay. That’s not suitable for all companies, for example banks or insurance companies, where reports have to be prepared. But especially with creative processes, I think it’s generally good if you don’t have to spend hours in meetings without being able to contribute anything.
SAP has meeting-free days, Shopify has just canceled all recurring meetings with more than two people. What can this achieve?
I think the idea is really good. In companies today, it is very difficult to find time to actually work productively. A day off when you just have time is incredibly valuable. I think that many people have now forgotten how to work for two or three hours in a concentrated manner. Meetings, emails or chats constantly interrupt work. We know neurologically that this is not good for creativity because the brain has to constantly restart.
If I, as an employee, have a meeting-free day, how can I make the most of it?
It is important to give yourself an internal structure and set yourself a goal. What do I want to do? What do I ideally want to have achieved at the end of the day? It’s not a problem if things don’t go as planned. On a day without communication, you shouldn’t work in a frenzy, but plan breaks just as well.
Now you’ve even talked about a communication-free day. Does that also mean no emails or Teams messages?
It doesn’t have to be that dogmatic. I just think it’s helpful to at least plan a time slot in which you turn off your email program and mute your phone. Then take another half hour to work through the messages that have piled up. You could try out a day of thinking or working like that to gain experience. For many people, that doesn’t even exist anymore.
How do companies know which meetings to cancel? Can artificial intelligence (AI) help?
With the help of AI and data, it is possible to identify the relevance of topics. At the moment, AI is making great progress, especially in the area of natural language processing. This makes it possible to evaluate which topics are discussed and how often. If we think of a manufacturing company, routine topics such as occupational safety or smoke detection systems will probably take up a relatively large amount of space. With such an analysis, human resources can be used more effectively.
But that assumes that meetings are properly named and have an agenda, right?
Exactly. Having a clear topic for the meeting, a clear objective and a summary of the results would already bring great progress.
Would these be your three tips to make meetings more productive?
Yes, those are the most important points. In addition, the participants should fit into the schedule and only as much time should be spent on the event as is really necessary.
What about a maximum number of participants?
At Amazon, the maximum is a “two-pizza team”, meaning eight to twelve people. I think that’s quite a lot, fewer is actually better.
You are clearly in favor of reducing meetings. Are you following the trend?
Yes, definitely. The meeting culture promotes the diffusion of responsibility and many people realize that large discussions do not lead to much productivity. Especially in the context of remote work, it is very important to categorize what you actually want to achieve with a meeting.
Source: Stern
