Tobias Kargoll:
I think that, for example, Armin Laschet’s election campaign was generally not well received by the youth. If you want to express it in parties, then hip-hop culture unites the FDP and the left a bit. Nobody has really bravely put forward progressive demands. From my point of view, even the Greens were inhibited.
Florian Saul:
Hi, I’m Florian Saul from stern.de and on the occasion of the federal election I talked to Tobias Kargoll. He is an expert in addressing young people and hip-hop culture. He is also co-founder of the hip-hop consulting company THE AMBITION and publisher of hiphop.de. For many voters, one of the surprises of the general election was the FDP’s strong performance among first-time voters, closely followed by the Greens. What did the two parties do particularly well when addressing young people?
Tobias Kargoll:
I would say that the FDP has decided to win over young people. She had a good plan and she was successful with it because she executed it well. I think the vote of the first-time voters shows the desire for change, which some in the Greens saw more, while others in the FDP saw it fulfilled by the first-time voters. Generation Z is considered progressive. In general, it is said of young people that they say that you are more progressive when you are younger. And I think when it comes to tonality, the FDP has simply beaten the Greens in terms of progressiveness. The Greens said “Ready because it’s you”. It’s kind of like an encouraging pat on the back. “Come on, dude, you can do it, you’re ready too, and we’ll all manage it somehow.” And the FDP was simply more courageous. But there are other points that the FDP got right in my opinion. They had young staff, that is something that appeals to young people. Above all, it scored with a very modern design. It all always looked a bit more like a start-up and less like dusty politics. All you have to do is look at the cover of the election program, and then you’ve actually found a key. You can already see it there. But you saw it too. With all the posters that were hanging in the city, you have the parties right next to each other and you can already compare them directly from a visual point of view. And then the FDP just looked successfully younger. Then they used social media very, very well. The FDP won on Tiktok. The FDP was also good on Instagram, they had their election program in the Instagram story. That makes sense. That’s cool. So you can somehow take young people with you. The topics discussed a lot about digitization also fit. In Corona times, I think the topic of freedom caught on well with young people, who of course feel like going around people, seeing others, celebrating, enjoying life and of course couldn’t. Then there were gimmicks, such as: For Fashion Week in Berlin, the FDP put out its election program on a sweatshirt. That alone does not win an election. But the overall picture of young staff, suitable topics and so on and so forth. This is something that got caught up in youth.
Florian Saul:
The election results clearly show that the FDP and the Greens in particular were able to score points with the youth. But did the other parties do something wrong or what could they have done better?
Tobias Kargoll:
The other parties have focused on a significantly older audience. If you want to appoint the Chancellor or the Chancellor, that might also make sense, because there are a lot of votes to be won from the elders. Laschet once said almost literally that he would like to face the wind of change, i.e. defy all changes in the world. And Scholz again emphasized his closeness to Angela Merkel and then had a stoic manner similar to Angela Merkel and then successfully outbid Laschet with his promise of continuity. The Greens have also tried to make people fearful of them, especially the older and more conservative potential voters. Nobody has really bravely put forward progressive demands. From my point of view, even the Greens were inhibited. I think that, for example, Armin Laschet’s election campaign was generally not well received by the youth. When he became a candidate for chancellor, 26 percent of Germans between the ages of 16 and 24 wanted to vote for the Union, and in the end it was 10 percent. So a lot has happened there. And that is, I think, because of what I just said, that most of all you were concerned about how can you convey continuity? How can you take the older ones with you? How can you take away people’s fear of change in such turbulent times? That went through from front to back. You can’t really emphasize that individuals. And on the other hand, there were the good moves with the Greens, but especially with the FDP, such as working with Tiktok and Instagram or relying on a good design.
Florian Saul:
For outsiders, hip-hop as a youth culture is often difficult to assess politically. On the one hand there is a great openness to the world and the “everyone can join in” mentality. On the other hand, however, capitalist status symbols also play a major role. How does this “political balancing act” come about?
Tobias Kargoll:
Half of the young people identify with this culture, that’s half a classroom. You can imagine that not all of them tick the same way. Hip-hop, if you want to express it in parties, then hip-hop culture unites the FDP and the left a bit. As strange as that may sound from a traditional German point of view. I was able to deal with it again in the last few months because we were working on a book. “Hip-Hop formula for success”, which will be published in October by Phillip Böndel and me. Social justice is of course a huge issue in hip-hop, precisely because the culture emerged from overcoming social injustice. Hip-Hop is positive about parties that want to end social injustice. Then maybe the left will come in or social democracy. But hip-hop is also a belief in self-efficacy. Hip-hop is the ambition. Hip-hop is the desire for social advancement. And of course the FDP can build on that. When they say: “Nothing is fate. It’s in your own hands. ”Then it’s about self-efficacy.
Florian Saul:
In his book Tobias Kargoll describes that the characteristics that have made hip-hop so successful can also be transferred to other businesses. But why is a hip-hop party like “Die Urbane” not more successful in politics?
Tobias Kargoll:
I think that “Die Urbane” is not that well known in hip-hop culture in Germany either. A lot of people just don’t know the party at all. If you look at the program, it fits in with hip-hop culture. Absolutely, and there would certainly be a choice for many people. But there is still a bit of a lack of awareness.
Florian Saul:
In the conversation it becomes clear: One possible explanation for the success of the FDP with first-time voters is the fact that the party has numerous points of contact with the largest popular culture of our time, namely hip-hop.
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