Markus Lanz addresses one possible next cause of escape. A debate about it does not get off the ground, however. Although the withdrawal of German troops from Afghanistan is on the agenda, Lars Klingbeil is first put under pressure and sharply condemned “Laschet’s cackling”.
By Sylvie-Sophie Schindler
Armin Laschet’s faux pas laughter or Annalena Baerbock’s copying – what is more important? Lars Klingbeil, please answer. And how about the flood disaster, is it allowed to campaign with it? By the way, you always see Olaf Scholz alone at his performances, why this solo number? Where is the SPD’s team spirit?
On Thursday evening, Markus Lanz put one question after the other to the SPD general secretary and once again carried out his typical maneuver “I’ll corner you, let’s see if you can get out of there.” Klingbeil parried with composure, gave swipes – “Laschets cackling” – exclusively against the CDU candidate for chancellor, did not say a bad word about Baerbock – “That is tactically clever”, so Lanz – and gave the expected hymns of praise: “We have it most convincing chancellor. “
Would it have needed that 22-minute banter? “We’re coming to Afghanistan,” Lanz finally introduced the more weighty topic. “Hard break,” commented Klingbeil, who had just philosophized about the nuances between a friendly grin, medium-strong laugh, violent laughter and smile. Incidentally, Lanz made it clear in the criticism of the Laschet laugh: “I’m not going with that, I’m sorry.” He showed understanding: “We all know that from funerals.”
The other guests of the panel discussion:
Katrin Eigendorf, ZDF reporter
Nadia Nashir-Karim, Chair of the “Afghan Women’s Association”
Dunja Neukam, former soldier and psychological counselor in Afghanistan
The German participation in the war in Afghanistan. “This is a subject that we are negotiating so strangely,” commented Lanz. “Why is that?” At the end of June, after almost 20 years, the international troops and thus also the soldiers of the Bundeswehr were withdrawn from their deployment in the Hindu Kush. A total of 160,000 from Germany were stationed there over the years, many of them several times, 59 died, 35 of them were killed in combat or by attacks. Nadia Nashir-Karim spoke of a “surprisingly quick trigger.” Almost overnight, without a concept. “That left a vacuum in Afghanistan.” The population is disappointed. “What you promised us did not take place.”
New refugee movement from Afghanistan?
What does it mean when the radical Islamist Taliban take power? Will that trigger the next refugee movements of those who want to leave the country? “What do we do when thousands, tens of thousands stand at the door?”, Lanz wanted to know from Klingbeil. In the SPD party program, he, Lanz, found only general places on the topics of migration and asylum. He had to be content with that, because his question remained in the air. Instead, Klingbeil affirmed that it was right to leave Afghanistan: “When the Americans decided to go out, it was clear to us that we had to go too.” Katrin Eigendorf described that a Sharia state should now be established, but parts of the rural population are even grateful, because the Taliban would ensure an order that many long for. “The weak government did not comply.”
The US underestimated the strength of the Taliban in its own country, said Eigendorf, from the start: “The Americans went in with dramatic ignorance.” Anyone who wears a turban and a beard has been classified as a Taliban. As a result, the war was not waged specifically against the Taliban, but against the Afghan people. As soon as it has been said, you want to scream. And this, the journalist continues, based on interests that are completely different from those of West Germany: “We wanted to fundamentally rebuild the country, but the Americans were fighting for their own security.” Their goal: Afghanistan should not be a retreat for international terrorism. The deployment of the German troops was based, she concluded, on a fundamental misjudgment. In any case, the reporter does not consider it possible that a country could be democratized militarily from the outside.
Americans with completely different goals than the Germans
Every talk show is good when those affected have their say and debates are not only conducted from journalistic desks and from federal political armchairs. Ex-soldier Dunja Neukam brought the Afghanistan war, in which she was deployed four times, much closer than the others in the group could ever have done. She told of her great disappointment when she understood that the Americans wanted something different from the German troops. Nevertheless, she thought for a long time, “There is a point in what we do”. Ultimately, the impacts came closer, and it was no longer possible to maintain good contact with the civilian population, as was the case at the beginning. In a bus attack, three comrades with whom she celebrated her birthday shortly before were injured, both in body and soul. “I’ve seen what war does to people,” she said. The trauma, however, is still not given enough consideration. “We still have to prove that something happened and state exactly where one was wounded, and that is where it becomes very difficult with emotional or moral wounds.” Sometimes the trauma would only make itself felt 25 years later: “How can you prove that?”
Neukam addressed another sore point: the lack of appreciation upon return. 264 men and women landed on June 30th in three Luftwaffe transport planes at the Wunstorf air base in Lower Saxony. With reference to the corona pandemic, however, the Bundeswehr waived a proper reception. More precisely: nobody came. “That was very sad, someone could have stood there as a symbol, someone who says thank you for your service and the willingness to make sacrifices,” said Neukam. Klingbeil also considers this a major oversight: “Someone should have stood there, that was totally unworthy,” he agreed – after all, there would be a big tattoo in front of the Reichstag building. In addition: there is still a lot to work on. The German Bundestag is obliged to do this. As well as protecting the soldiers. “Armed drones are one of them,” affirmed the politician and son of a professional soldier – who has clearly taken his position in this debate for a long time. So the SPD as a reliable partner for the Bundeswehr? How much pacifism is there actually in the Social Democrats? To go into the details, unfortunately, in the end, there was no time that had been spent analyzing Armin L.’s laughter.
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