Bodo Ramelow calls for Left Party reform: “Exchanging people is not enough”

interview

Mister RamelowThe announcement of the resignation of the two Left Party leaders has caught you in the middle of a heated election campaign. How angry are you?
First of all, I want to say that the announcement is an absolutely necessary step. However, I concede that such changes could create additional unrest and put a strain on the election campaign. However, any announcement of a change in personnel would have come at an inopportune time. The timing may seem bad, but it can also be helpful. And I understand the two chairmen. The pressure on them had been building up massively since the European elections, first through the statements of Gregor Gysi and Dietmar Bartsch – and then through some regional associations. Incidentally, we Thuringians expressly did not belong to these associations. But what I am saying clearly is that the new leadership can only be part of a fundamental new beginning for the party. A change of people is not enough.

That means?
There were already design flaws when the party was founded, which I worked on. The Left needs a clear leadership and action structure in which all state executives are more bindingly involved. Until now, the party executive, the party council and the state associations have been on different planets, while the parliamentary group in the Bundestag has behaved like its own solar system, with Sahra Wagenknecht at the center of the dispute.

Wagenknecht has now founded her own rival party, which is ahead of your state party in the Thuringian polls. What does that do to you?
It makes me combative. Wagenknecht was always the one who agitated against pragmatic, centrist, people-oriented politics, which is exactly what she is now calling for in a populist way. For me, however, it was always about the practical value of the Left, and that is still high in Thuringia.

Because you are – still – prime minister? But your red-red-green coalition is only getting 25 percent in polls if you look at it kindly. Was that it for you?
The Left is gaining ground in the polls again. We are within striking distance of the CDU and BSW. I sense an incredible amount of motivation from our campaigners and I am getting a lot of support – and my sympathy points still play a big role. I have not given up yet. Around 40 percent of voters only make their decision shortly before the election.

But you cannot deny that the left is currently under existential threat everywhere, in Bundestagin the state parliaments, in the municipalities and the remaining state governments. Where is your so-called use value?
We are going through an extremely difficult phase in which we are losing more and more real power. But that must not tempt us to stop making pragmatic political offers and instead degenerate into a mere movement party for socialism and world peace. We must fight very specifically to improve people’s lives, in the social area but also in practical matters such as good rail connections.

The extremely difficult phase your party is currently going through also includes the fact that a member of the Thuringian Left Party’s state parliament is being investigated for child pornography. Another member has left the party because of this. How hard is this hitting you?
That hit me right in the gut. We on the Left drew a clear line and said that the accused MP would not be a member of the future parliamentary group. And while we were drawing a clear line, the other MP came along and resigned, saying that we did not have a clear line. I will say it again clearly: the perpetrators who produce child pornography destroy human lives, destroy souls, ruin lives and exploit them in the most disgusting way. And the perpetrators who consume this disgusting product support this destruction of life, are aiding and abetting it. And that is why the consumption of child pornography should be punished just as harshly. If the accused does not speak out now, that is his legal right. But our political right is to say that in this case he will never again be involved in politics for the Left. Period.

Back to the BSW: Thuringian state leader Katja Wolf recently echoed Wagenknecht’s statements that her party could also agree to AfD laws in parliament…
…which is a big deal. When her co-state chairman said exactly the same thing in the spring, Wolf called him back. And she told me that she had only gone to the BSW because of the danger the AfD posed to democracy: she could not remain mayor of Eisenach for the Left because she was worried that she would wake up under Prime Minister Höcke. And now she is saying that the AfD should not have blinkers either and that all motions in parliament should be assessed purely on their content and arguments…

Wolf rules out active cooperation or even a coalition with the AfD. Don’t you believe her?
What I believe is irrelevant. What I do know is that Katja Wolf has always been very flexible. But the crucial question remains: what does Ms Wolf ultimately have to decide or say? Everything is tailored to Ms Wagenknecht, who is not even running for election in Thuringia.

And yet you would form a coalition with the BSW in order to remain Prime Minister?
It’s not about me. It’s about us being able to shape things again in Thuringia, beyond the 30 percent who might vote for the AfD. I led a minority government for four and a half years and, despite the pandemic and the consequences of the war, we achieved more than many people want to admit. Nevertheless, it really wasn’t fun. This is not a model that a country can use to move forward in the long term. We therefore need a government with an effective majority in parliament. That will be difficult enough, which is why all of us who care about democracy should not have any exclusion debates beyond the right-wing extremist AfD. Above all, all democratic parties must be able to make decisions. Thuringian politics must also be decided in Thuringia. I simply have doubts about the CDU and BSW. Thuringia is being used as a power option for the federal election, just as Björn Höcke is using it for his dreams of seizing power throughout Germany.