“Anne Will”: Lützerath-Talk causes trouble between Reul and Neubauer

Anne Will’s slow farewell to her Sunday talk begins. ARD had just announced that the moderator would not be extending her contract when Will started again after her Christmas break. The topic of the hour was of course Lützerath. Will wanted to explore the question with her guests: “Battle for Lützerath – crucial test for German climate policy?”

Guests at “Anne Will” were:

The problem with the rather open question and the invited guests: none of them had come to discuss. Instead, they already had their opinion with them, which had to be expressed as loudly and offensively as possible. So it was already predictable in advance what the exchange of blows between Luisa Neubauer and Herbert Reul would be about. It was all about telling each other: The fault is on your side.

Deviations from the discussed demo route

While Herbert Reul complained that demonstrators had not followed the previously agreed route and then “what the police said happened from the start,” Luisa Neubauer, who was there herself, reported on the frightening scenes. It was “perhaps not legal” that some demonstrators approached the edge, but in their opinion it was somehow justifiable. Already at this point you get a slight stomach ache, because the end should not justify the means on either side. In case of doubt, such an argument as that of Neubauer tends to weaken the entire statement.

The “disproportionate” violence that is in the room would not be justifiable, although in due course this term should perhaps be discussed again in general. When is violence proportionate? Anne Will first wanted to know from the Interior Minister of North Rhine-Westphalia whether it had been used, allegations of violence against the heads of demonstrators in particular were made on social media and by a paramedic. As expected, Reul answered evasively that everything would be checked and if there had been misconduct on the part of the police, then they would be punished. At the same time, he pointed out that the demonstrators had attacked the police. “Stones flew, Molotov cocktails flew, rockets flew,” was his accusation, in addition to the fact that people just didn’t follow the prescribed path on the site.

It is undisputed that violence from both sides is out of the question and that what happened on the ground must be dealt with. But it’s difficult when Luisa Neubauer on the one hand reported about the exact violence, but answered evasively when asked that she herself didn’t see it clearly in the “confused situation”. But there would be video material. Videos can also be fake. According to Neubauer, she could not “presume” to say how the police acted on site, but she had no reason not to believe the paramedic’s statements. “Something got out of hand,” Neubauer continued, and she sees the police alone as responsible. There is no question that reappraisal must take place and that violence should be condemned. But the motto still applies to talk guests: Only report what you have seen and experienced yourself.

Other guests would have been desirable

The CDU man Reul was certain that climate protection had been “discredited” by some people on the demo site, and further stated that what happened at the weekend was no coincidence. He couldn’t understand why a peaceful protest wasn’t explicitly called for. Almost reflexively, Neubauer pointed out that it was a predominantly peaceful protest, in which the consensus for action was clear the whole time.

The previously described deviation from the planned route, which was largely peaceful, can nevertheless be understood as a provocation. This shouldn’t be answered with violence, but it’s remarkable that Neubauer has so far denied any responsibility for the escalation. Nothing is as black and white as both sides wanted to make it believable and that is exactly what makes the situation so little a topic for a discussion with these two guests of all people.

Climate researcher Mojib Latif and the director of the Cologne Institute for Economic Research, Michael Hüther, were the two voices who tried to classify the overall situation for the viewers. First of all, both made it very clear: the discussion about police violence and violence on the part of the demonstrators does not help the topic. Because that should still be climate protection and the question: How can Germany deal with the global problem of global warming in a more energetic and committed manner? The wasteful lifestyle of the Germans, our historical responsibility because we have been overexploiting the earth ever more since the industrial revolution must be fought. “Lützerath is a symbol,” says Latif, but the main thing is to find real solutions to climate change and not to lose sight of everyone else

“Lützerath is completely irrelevant,” Hüther countered. The problem is that there is so much talk about the violence on the ground that the real issue of global tasks in terms of climate protection is not discussed. Instead of watching Luisa Neubauer and Herbert Reul discuss this topic, according to the director of the Cologne Institute for Economic Research, it would have been more important to ask a federal minister about environmental protection. Anne Will informed that all inquiries in this regard were unfortunately not answered successfully.

Anne Will met Greta Thunberg

In the run-up to the show, the moderator met with Greta Thunberg to discuss the compromise that Lützerath would be sacrificed in order to preserve five more villages and to make the coal phase-out in NRW by RWE a reality as early as 2030. She finds it “strange that we sacrifice a village to save the others,” said the Swede. It is “hypocritical what is happening” and it is generally not her job as an activist to find this compromise positive. She sees her task as “pushing for change” and continuing to draw attention to “what is best for the planet”.

Thunberg also pointed out that statements by activists are often taken out of context that the violence we in the Global North are inflicting on the planet must not continue. “We call for civil disobedience,” Thunberg continued. At the same time, she made it clear that she could not tell anyone what he or she should or should not do. Luisa Neubauer argued similarly on the show.

Other topics:

Do we need the coal under Lützerath at all? The study situation on whether the coal that could be mined under Lützerath is still used in Germany is ambiguous. However, why the federal government and RWE did not simply wait and see, but instead pushed through the evacuation of Lützerath, could not be finally clarified in the talk.

Nuclear power plants, yes or no? While Herbert Reul could warm to the continued operation of nuclear power plants, Mojib Latif was firmly against it. The flexibility to keep all options open “is nothing other than that we don’t want to say goodbye to anything”. Then the climate researcher got really angry about how much he believed RWE had lied to and manipulated in the past. “Why do you trust them,” he asked in the direction of Reul.

The federal chairwoman of the Greens, Ricarda Lang, could not land a point that evening. Like a prayer wheel, she recalled the war started by Putin against Ukraine and the resulting energy crisis for Germany. She does not expect, she also spoke to party colleague Neubauer, that the climate movement will be satisfied with compromises. At the moment, however, it looks as if not only the activists but all of us have to do exactly that.